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	<title>Comments on: Dry Yeast v. Liquid Yeast</title>
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	<link>http://koehlerbeer.com/2008/05/23/dry-yeast-v-liquid-yeast/</link>
	<description>Sed omnia praeclara tam difficilia, quam rara sunt.</description>
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		<title>By: Bruboy555</title>
		<link>http://koehlerbeer.com/2008/05/23/dry-yeast-v-liquid-yeast/#comment-419</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bruboy555]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Aug 2011 19:39:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://koehlerbeer.wordpress.com/?p=40#comment-419</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am very glad I happend along and found this thread.  My brother always uses liquid yeasts, and had been urging me to do so as well.  I resisted mostly because of the price, but was swayed by his assertions that the liquid yeast made a &quot;cleaner&quot; beer.  I have used a few liquid yeasts, mostly White Labs for Octoberfests and some Wyeast for Belgian Abbey, but was not totally convinced I could tell the difference between them and my good quality dry yeasts.  I will say this, the liquid yeasts I have used have uniformly been very good, while some of the low buck dry yeasts have had some poor performance in terms of attenuation at least.  I think the dry yeasts like Danstar Nottingham work well for beers up to about 6% ABV, while the Wyeasts liquid strains seem to be a bit more tolerant of high alcohol levels.  For most mid range beers, I think dry yeasts are fine.  I think going forward I will save the liquid yeasts for my high gravity brews.

Thanks for spending some time on this and keep up the good work.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am very glad I happend along and found this thread.  My brother always uses liquid yeasts, and had been urging me to do so as well.  I resisted mostly because of the price, but was swayed by his assertions that the liquid yeast made a &#8220;cleaner&#8221; beer.  I have used a few liquid yeasts, mostly White Labs for Octoberfests and some Wyeast for Belgian Abbey, but was not totally convinced I could tell the difference between them and my good quality dry yeasts.  I will say this, the liquid yeasts I have used have uniformly been very good, while some of the low buck dry yeasts have had some poor performance in terms of attenuation at least.  I think the dry yeasts like Danstar Nottingham work well for beers up to about 6% ABV, while the Wyeasts liquid strains seem to be a bit more tolerant of high alcohol levels.  For most mid range beers, I think dry yeasts are fine.  I think going forward I will save the liquid yeasts for my high gravity brews.</p>
<p>Thanks for spending some time on this and keep up the good work.</p>
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		<title>By: How To Make Wine: Does The Type Of Yeast You Use Make A Difference? &#124; Scott's Wine Making Blog</title>
		<link>http://koehlerbeer.com/2008/05/23/dry-yeast-v-liquid-yeast/#comment-148</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[How To Make Wine: Does The Type Of Yeast You Use Make A Difference? &#124; Scott's Wine Making Blog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Apr 2009 18:33:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://koehlerbeer.wordpress.com/?p=40#comment-148</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Dry Yeast v. Liquid Yeast [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Dry Yeast v. Liquid Yeast [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Lubertozzi</title>
		<link>http://koehlerbeer.com/2008/05/23/dry-yeast-v-liquid-yeast/#comment-133</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave Lubertozzi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 18:09:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://koehlerbeer.wordpress.com/?p=40#comment-133</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Lee Koehler wrote:
I am very excited to hear someone is interested in more than a passing fashion in the topic. &lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;m sure the dry yeast manufacturers are pretty seriously interested in increasing their market share, although I wonder how much yeast homebrew and even craft brewers actually buy (I guess that would depend on what your barrel/year cutoff is between micro, craft and macro - I assume all the larger breweries re-culture their own yeast, but maybe not). Regardless, besides great tasting beer and a fun hobby, I&#039;m motivated to brew partly by frugality - i.e. I&#039;m cheap! So with increasing ingredient costs it sure makes sense to do what you can to hold down your batch price; if we can do that without sacrificing quality, and in fact have increased convenience and consistency, I&#039;m all for that. How could anyone be against that? I do want my homebrew store to do well, so I guess the more dollar value of stuff they sell the better off they are, I know their margins are slim now - but I&#039;m going to recommend to my local guys that they just stock one liquid (they now have a big selection of both Wyeast and White Labs) and get all the SAF and Lallemand yeasts they can. It&#039;d be a shame if we (they) lost homebrewers (customers) because they decided it wasn&#039;t worth paying $15 for grain, $6 for yeast, and $3.50 for hops + incidentals = $25/5 gal batch + your labor...heck I can almost buy good beer for $10/gal at the store ;-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Lee Koehler wrote:<br />
I am very excited to hear someone is interested in more than a passing fashion in the topic. </i></p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure the dry yeast manufacturers are pretty seriously interested in increasing their market share, although I wonder how much yeast homebrew and even craft brewers actually buy (I guess that would depend on what your barrel/year cutoff is between micro, craft and macro &#8211; I assume all the larger breweries re-culture their own yeast, but maybe not). Regardless, besides great tasting beer and a fun hobby, I&#8217;m motivated to brew partly by frugality &#8211; i.e. I&#8217;m cheap! So with increasing ingredient costs it sure makes sense to do what you can to hold down your batch price; if we can do that without sacrificing quality, and in fact have increased convenience and consistency, I&#8217;m all for that. How could anyone be against that? I do want my homebrew store to do well, so I guess the more dollar value of stuff they sell the better off they are, I know their margins are slim now &#8211; but I&#8217;m going to recommend to my local guys that they just stock one liquid (they now have a big selection of both Wyeast and White Labs) and get all the SAF and Lallemand yeasts they can. It&#8217;d be a shame if we (they) lost homebrewers (customers) because they decided it wasn&#8217;t worth paying $15 for grain, $6 for yeast, and $3.50 for hops + incidentals = $25/5 gal batch + your labor&#8230;heck I can almost buy good beer for $10/gal at the store ;-)</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Lubertozzi</title>
		<link>http://koehlerbeer.com/2008/05/23/dry-yeast-v-liquid-yeast/#comment-131</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave Lubertozzi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 19:43:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://koehlerbeer.wordpress.com/?p=40#comment-131</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[oops - forgot to format the table for html, here it is:



  table
  



  
    
      &lt;b&gt;Yeast&lt;/b&gt;
      &lt;b&gt;Cost&lt;/b&gt;
      &lt;b&gt;Shelf life&lt;/b&gt;
      &lt;b&gt;preparation&lt;/b&gt;
      &lt;b&gt;activity&lt;/b&gt;
    
    
      &lt;b&gt;Liquid&lt;/b&gt;
      $5 - $6
      4 - 6 months*
      24 - 72 hrs†
      variable
    
    
      &lt;b&gt;Dry&lt;/b&gt;
      $1.50 - $2
      2 years**
      30 min‡
      high
    
  


]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oops &#8211; forgot to format the table for html, here it is:</p>
<p>  table</p>
<p>      <b>Yeast</b><br />
      <b>Cost</b><br />
      <b>Shelf life</b><br />
      <b>preparation</b><br />
      <b>activity</b></p>
<p>      <b>Liquid</b><br />
      $5 &#8211; $6<br />
      4 &#8211; 6 months*<br />
      24 &#8211; 72 hrs†<br />
      variable</p>
<p>      <b>Dry</b><br />
      $1.50 &#8211; $2<br />
      2 years**<br />
      30 min‡<br />
      high</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Dave Lubertozzi</title>
		<link>http://koehlerbeer.com/2008/05/23/dry-yeast-v-liquid-yeast/#comment-130</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave Lubertozzi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 19:28:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://koehlerbeer.wordpress.com/?p=40#comment-130</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I wrote a similar essay (below) three years ago for the BAM newsletter, it stirred up exactly zero discussion. At the meeting last nite dry yeast was discussed, with the caveat that &quot;it&#039;s getting better...but&quot; and there was still the general perception that it&#039;s somehow not as good - in particular, the idea was bounced around that dry yeasts are not as clean as liquid. Without any hard data on that, I&#039;d have to relegate that idea to the realm of superstition.

The upshot: three years after writing this, I&#039;ve had nothing but great results, and become a total dry yeast convert. I&#039;ll still use liquids when I want a specific strain that&#039;s not available dry, but that&#039;s the only reason to IMO.


&lt;b&gt;Dry brewing yeast: as good as liquid?&lt;/b&gt;

&lt;i&gt;Or maybe even better…?&lt;/i&gt;

When I first started brewing, I was advised to throw the packet of dry yeast that came with the can of malt extract in the garbage, and get a Wyeast smack-pack instead, because the results were always superior. I’ve used it ever since, or the White Labs. Between them, they have almost a hundred strains to choose from, and their literature is full of glowing sensory descriptors such as “malty, minerally, spicy” etc. and also gives attenuation, flocculation and other tips. What more could you want?

Well, the last time I brewed, I made a Vienna lager with some old yeast I’d saved, and since I was unsure it was still alive, I bought a packet of dry yeast as insurance. Sure enough, mine was dead, so I put the dry yeast in and it kicked right up in a few hours. I put it in the fridge that night, and it’s bubbling along happily at 35º. The same day we did another batch for my friend, and put in a Wyeast “Activator” pack, which I hadn’t activated – I didn’t realize it was still a smack-pack, and in fact they advertise that it has just as many cells as the White Labs tube, so you can just pitch it in. I mixed and aerated well, but after 48hrs, the only activity was a wee bit on the floating (unbroken) inner nutrient pouch, which I guess had a little yeast stuck to it, and since it was on top it got enough O2 to get going. That night I sprinkled a packet of SafBrew S-33 on top, and within a few hours it was going strong.

This got me thinking, why am I using liquid yeast? Let’s compare:

Yeast	Cost	Shelf life	preparation	activity
Liquid	$5 - $6	4 - 6 months*	24 - 72 hrs†	variable
Dry	$1.50 - $2	2 years**	30 min‡	high

* if you’re lucky; the liquid ale yeast was made in April
** the SafLager S-23 I used was actually right on the expiration date, seemed good as new
† You may have to make a starter; they guarantee it’ll swell in 6 days, which seems pretty sad really   
‡ if you rehydrate it; just sprinkling it on top seems to work just as well

OK, so why are liquids better? Because they’re “fresh”? What good is that if they don’t start up quickly?
My experience in ten years as a baker is that nobody uses fresh yeast any more, because dry is much better in terms of shelf life and activity; the best brands were SAF (Fermentis) and Fermipan (Lallemand). Similarly, winemakers have used dry yeast with no complaints forever, only recently have liquids made a foray into the wine world. I just started a mead with dry ale yeast too. I’m curious to see how it goes, since meads are notorious for being slow and often stuck fermentations – so far, so good.

My recent experience in microbiology leads me to believe that liquid yeasts took over because a small lab can easily go out and culture yeast strains from various sources, and prep and package them quickly. The large array of available strains puts the choices in dry yeast to shame. To make dry yeast profitable, it needs to be done in a fairly large scale (in fact, Fermentis offers to culture your preferred strain and dry and package it for you, but only with a minimum order of 1,500 kg or more of dry yeast!). That doesn’t make it inherently inferior, just different. The small liquid labs were ideally poised to take advantage of the home- and craft-brewing market, and they make a fine product, but right now, I’m thinking of becoming a dry yeast fan. I like the idea of keeping a dozen or so packets on hand, so I can brew at a moment’s notice and not worry “is my yeast alive?” Even if the packets with those old malt cans weren’t any good, that doesn’t mean dry yeast is all bad. There are not as many choices as in liquid, but there are at least a dozen to pick from, so you should be able to vary the yeast to suit the beer style reasonably well. Of course, for us, taste is the final arbiter. I haven’t brewed with dry yeast until now, so I’m eager to taste the results, and will share the tasting notes (if not the beer ;-) with all of you soon.

Here are some links to dry yeast info:
http://www.crosby-baker.com/DCL.htm
http://www.fermentis.com/FO/EN/00-Home/10-10_home.asp
http://consumer.lallemand.com/danstar-lalvin/danstar.html

I’d be interested to hear what others have to say about this, maybe we can get a discussion forum on our website?

- Dave Lubertozzi  7/20/05]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wrote a similar essay (below) three years ago for the BAM newsletter, it stirred up exactly zero discussion. At the meeting last nite dry yeast was discussed, with the caveat that &#8220;it&#8217;s getting better&#8230;but&#8221; and there was still the general perception that it&#8217;s somehow not as good &#8211; in particular, the idea was bounced around that dry yeasts are not as clean as liquid. Without any hard data on that, I&#8217;d have to relegate that idea to the realm of superstition.</p>
<p>The upshot: three years after writing this, I&#8217;ve had nothing but great results, and become a total dry yeast convert. I&#8217;ll still use liquids when I want a specific strain that&#8217;s not available dry, but that&#8217;s the only reason to IMO.</p>
<p><b>Dry brewing yeast: as good as liquid?</b></p>
<p><i>Or maybe even better…?</i></p>
<p>When I first started brewing, I was advised to throw the packet of dry yeast that came with the can of malt extract in the garbage, and get a Wyeast smack-pack instead, because the results were always superior. I’ve used it ever since, or the White Labs. Between them, they have almost a hundred strains to choose from, and their literature is full of glowing sensory descriptors such as “malty, minerally, spicy” etc. and also gives attenuation, flocculation and other tips. What more could you want?</p>
<p>Well, the last time I brewed, I made a Vienna lager with some old yeast I’d saved, and since I was unsure it was still alive, I bought a packet of dry yeast as insurance. Sure enough, mine was dead, so I put the dry yeast in and it kicked right up in a few hours. I put it in the fridge that night, and it’s bubbling along happily at 35º. The same day we did another batch for my friend, and put in a Wyeast “Activator” pack, which I hadn’t activated – I didn’t realize it was still a smack-pack, and in fact they advertise that it has just as many cells as the White Labs tube, so you can just pitch it in. I mixed and aerated well, but after 48hrs, the only activity was a wee bit on the floating (unbroken) inner nutrient pouch, which I guess had a little yeast stuck to it, and since it was on top it got enough O2 to get going. That night I sprinkled a packet of SafBrew S-33 on top, and within a few hours it was going strong.</p>
<p>This got me thinking, why am I using liquid yeast? Let’s compare:</p>
<p>Yeast	Cost	Shelf life	preparation	activity<br />
Liquid	$5 &#8211; $6	4 &#8211; 6 months*	24 &#8211; 72 hrs†	variable<br />
Dry	$1.50 &#8211; $2	2 years**	30 min‡	high</p>
<p>* if you’re lucky; the liquid ale yeast was made in April<br />
** the SafLager S-23 I used was actually right on the expiration date, seemed good as new<br />
† You may have to make a starter; they guarantee it’ll swell in 6 days, which seems pretty sad really<br />
‡ if you rehydrate it; just sprinkling it on top seems to work just as well</p>
<p>OK, so why are liquids better? Because they’re “fresh”? What good is that if they don’t start up quickly?<br />
My experience in ten years as a baker is that nobody uses fresh yeast any more, because dry is much better in terms of shelf life and activity; the best brands were SAF (Fermentis) and Fermipan (Lallemand). Similarly, winemakers have used dry yeast with no complaints forever, only recently have liquids made a foray into the wine world. I just started a mead with dry ale yeast too. I’m curious to see how it goes, since meads are notorious for being slow and often stuck fermentations – so far, so good.</p>
<p>My recent experience in microbiology leads me to believe that liquid yeasts took over because a small lab can easily go out and culture yeast strains from various sources, and prep and package them quickly. The large array of available strains puts the choices in dry yeast to shame. To make dry yeast profitable, it needs to be done in a fairly large scale (in fact, Fermentis offers to culture your preferred strain and dry and package it for you, but only with a minimum order of 1,500 kg or more of dry yeast!). That doesn’t make it inherently inferior, just different. The small liquid labs were ideally poised to take advantage of the home- and craft-brewing market, and they make a fine product, but right now, I’m thinking of becoming a dry yeast fan. I like the idea of keeping a dozen or so packets on hand, so I can brew at a moment’s notice and not worry “is my yeast alive?” Even if the packets with those old malt cans weren’t any good, that doesn’t mean dry yeast is all bad. There are not as many choices as in liquid, but there are at least a dozen to pick from, so you should be able to vary the yeast to suit the beer style reasonably well. Of course, for us, taste is the final arbiter. I haven’t brewed with dry yeast until now, so I’m eager to taste the results, and will share the tasting notes (if not the beer ;-) with all of you soon.</p>
<p>Here are some links to dry yeast info:<br />
<a href="http://www.crosby-baker.com/DCL.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.crosby-baker.com/DCL.htm</a><br />
<a href="http://www.fermentis.com/FO/EN/00-Home/10-10_home.asp" rel="nofollow">http://www.fermentis.com/FO/EN/00-Home/10-10_home.asp</a><br />
<a href="http://consumer.lallemand.com/danstar-lalvin/danstar.html" rel="nofollow">http://consumer.lallemand.com/danstar-lalvin/danstar.html</a></p>
<p>I’d be interested to hear what others have to say about this, maybe we can get a discussion forum on our website?</p>
<p>- Dave Lubertozzi  7/20/05</p>
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		<title>By: Lee Koehler</title>
		<link>http://koehlerbeer.com/2008/05/23/dry-yeast-v-liquid-yeast/#comment-86</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lee Koehler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 14:05:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://koehlerbeer.wordpress.com/?p=40#comment-86</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was just talking ales, which I should have made clear. I&#039;ve had this problem with lagers - my very young son likes to pull the thermometer probe for the controller out of my fermenter - which makes maintaining lager temperatures difficult. My plan is to use the recommended pitching rates from Jamil&#039;s calculator when using/testing dry yeast. I&#039;m also thinking about comparing some oxygenated v non-oxygenated batches with dry yeast. The biggest holdup at the moment is getting together enough small fermenters that I can do them all at once with the same batch of wort.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was just talking ales, which I should have made clear. I&#8217;ve had this problem with lagers &#8211; my very young son likes to pull the thermometer probe for the controller out of my fermenter &#8211; which makes maintaining lager temperatures difficult. My plan is to use the recommended pitching rates from Jamil&#8217;s calculator when using/testing dry yeast. I&#8217;m also thinking about comparing some oxygenated v non-oxygenated batches with dry yeast. The biggest holdup at the moment is getting together enough small fermenters that I can do them all at once with the same batch of wort.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Flaminio</title>
		<link>http://koehlerbeer.com/2008/05/23/dry-yeast-v-liquid-yeast/#comment-85</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mike Flaminio]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 13:51:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://koehlerbeer.wordpress.com/?p=40#comment-85</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Interesting article. I&#039;m about to work with some dry yeast batches and I&#039;ve been pondering the whole hydrate or not and oxygenate vs not thing. 

If Jamil is still watching, his calculator figures 1.7 (20g) of dry yeast for a 1.048 lager.  Here, you&#039;re basically pitching two packs, so curious if we&#039;re only talking ales or just go with one pack for a lager too?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting article. I&#8217;m about to work with some dry yeast batches and I&#8217;ve been pondering the whole hydrate or not and oxygenate vs not thing. </p>
<p>If Jamil is still watching, his calculator figures 1.7 (20g) of dry yeast for a 1.048 lager.  Here, you&#8217;re basically pitching two packs, so curious if we&#8217;re only talking ales or just go with one pack for a lager too?</p>
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		<title>By: Lee Koehler</title>
		<link>http://koehlerbeer.com/2008/05/23/dry-yeast-v-liquid-yeast/#comment-75</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lee Koehler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 19:02:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://koehlerbeer.wordpress.com/?p=40#comment-75</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jamil is of course correct. I edited my blog for clarity and noted the correction. The recipes I was recalling used 2 5g packets of dry yeast, not 2 11g packets.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jamil is of course correct. I edited my blog for clarity and noted the correction. The recipes I was recalling used 2 5g packets of dry yeast, not 2 11g packets.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Lee Koehler</title>
		<link>http://koehlerbeer.com/2008/05/23/dry-yeast-v-liquid-yeast/#comment-74</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lee Koehler]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 16:11:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://koehlerbeer.wordpress.com/?p=40#comment-74</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That will teach me to quote something from memory instead of looking it up to verify it first. I hope I am just remembering that from the recipes I have brewed, but it&#039;s probably faulty memory.  Again, thanks for the pitching rate calculator and every thing else too Jamil.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That will teach me to quote something from memory instead of looking it up to verify it first. I hope I am just remembering that from the recipes I have brewed, but it&#8217;s probably faulty memory.  Again, thanks for the pitching rate calculator and every thing else too Jamil.</p>
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		<title>By: Jamil Zainasheff</title>
		<link>http://koehlerbeer.com/2008/05/23/dry-yeast-v-liquid-yeast/#comment-73</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jamil Zainasheff]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 16:06:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://koehlerbeer.wordpress.com/?p=40#comment-73</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think there might be a typo here. I don&#039;t recommend pitching two 11 gram packages of dry yeast, unless you&#039;re making a very large batch of beer or one of exceptional strength. The amount of dry yeast needed is going to vary with the starting gravity, wort volume, and if making an ale or lager beer. You can find my pitching recommendations by using the pitching rate calculator at my website, www.mrmalty.com.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there might be a typo here. I don&#8217;t recommend pitching two 11 gram packages of dry yeast, unless you&#8217;re making a very large batch of beer or one of exceptional strength. The amount of dry yeast needed is going to vary with the starting gravity, wort volume, and if making an ale or lager beer. You can find my pitching recommendations by using the pitching rate calculator at my website, <a href="http://www.mrmalty.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.mrmalty.com</a>.</p>
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